just thoughts of a crazy old man

[Caaveman]

You know, they say that if you talk about it, that you'll understand it better. If you write it down on a piece of paper and read it you won't get anything out of it until you mail it to someone. I guess it's all about the point of no return, When you can't take it back. I guess, only at that point does it sit on your brain, and you have to look at all sides of it instead of just your own silly one sided, side of it. I don't expect very many people to read this at all, Norw do I expect anyone to want to comment on it. But some times I feel in such a way that I don't know how I feel. Or how I should feel. I can't even explain it to me mus less anyone else. I have had a good life, I have had a good woman of 22+ years, Two children whom have grown up quiet well for the father they had. I never got much schooling, as I left home for the first time when I was 14 years old, and I dropped out of school completely when I turned 16, I didn't go much those last couple of years anyway. I was already working and thought that I already had life figured out. Seams that the older I get, the less I understand. I already had had gay sex at an even younger age. I just thought that it was a part of growing up. And I did love the attention that it brought me, so it was good. Then as I got took more often I began to realize that this was not the norm, as it always had to be hidden from sight, and I was told that if word got out that I would be hated by all, and that bad things would happen and as a child I believed what I was told. Now understand, I am not trying to shine any ill gotten light on anyone here. Anyway after I got out on my own, I only had one other gay sex partner and that was a one night stand. I started seeing girls, not many, Hell, I could count all the women that I' ever been with on my fingers and still have some folded down. Then I met my wife and we got married. After a few years I started to want sex that a woman in all of her beauty, glory, and nature could not satisfy unless she used plastic (And, no I don't mean her credit card!! LOL).But it was hard to get her to use the toys on me with out telling her that I had enjoyed another man's dick. But I did, This seemed to satisfy me for a few years, or at least release the tension that built up from time to time. We even had MMF threesomes before, and it was hard for me to keep my hands off him and act straight, but I did. Then she played alone with a man and right after that is when I broke down and told her that I was bi and that I wanted men as well as women. I don't know why. I don't understand it myself. But if I don't push through then I will never understand it and I may loose what little sanity that I have left. But she agreed for me to have MM sex, only she said that I should have it one on one the first time ( I'm not sure if she thought that it would be better for me or if she couldn't stand the sight of it), either way I have to give her an A+ for the effort of understanding me and trying to make me happy. I went out and took the first dick that I could get. What I was looking for just wasn't there, I mean, it was good, it was fun, but not like I felt it should be. I think that it's because in my mind she was left out. I love sex, I love my wife, and I love the feeling of a dick in my mouth and my ass.I guess I am having a hard time of it because as a woman I thought that she would be happy for me and understand that the dick was just as good for me as it is for her, and she would ask me about every little detail of it after it was over like she was interested in how I felt and how I liked it, like I do her after she has sex with someone else. I felt real let down, not that it's her at any fault, I just did. I felt like she didn't want to hear about it because she didn't want to know or think about me with another man. Anyway, if you have read this far down then you must have had a very boring day. Sorry this didn't come to a big dramatic ending for ya. I am just trying to understand her and even me a little bit more. And I figured this was the place to do it at since y'all are mostly of a bi nature and could understand and old mans rambling. (At least here you can stop reading at any time without being impolite.) And I don't figure that anyone here will be judgmental of me.Well maybe I've written enough that after I hit the submit button, I'll see it from another angle and feel better. Later...Bye.

[DiamondDog]

hmmmm I'm not really sure what you want?

If you were having MMF 3 ways with your wife, even if you somehow "acted straight" (how? I don't know?), trust me she knew you weren't heterosexual.

If you don't like having an open relationship, don't have one. If you want her there when you have sex with men, do that.

If I were married/in a LTR with a woman I'd personally have to have an open relationship and I don't know if our relationship together would last and I'd just be reminded of the men who I dated/had relationships in the past with and I'd probably just end it and leave, and have a more serious romantic relationship with a man instead of with a woman.

Anyway this is all about what you want and I can't really figure that out by your post but it's something that you yourself should try to figure out since only you know.

[HighEnergy]

You need to tell her that you need to talk about it with her. She might now know if you want that, need that, or that she might be prying if she asks. Also, you need to make sure she's not feeling vulnerable and insecure. Reassure her that you love her all the more, even with your new "freedom" to go play, and how it's impacting your relationship. Also, she might need you to invite her to play with you. :2cents:

[Caaveman]

You need to tell her that you need to talk about it with her. She might now know if you want that, need that, or that she might be prying if she asks. Also, you need to make sure she's not feeling vulnerable and insecure. Reassure her that you love her all the more, even with your new "freedom" to go play, and how it's impacting your relationship. Also, she might need you to invite her to play with you. :2cents:

Well, for me that's easier said than done. You see, I'm no good with words, face to face, not with a person that I care about. I can type almost anything here, cause I don't know ya and I don't have to look ya in the eye and see what may be hurt, sadness, guilt, fear, haterid,or judgment. But I do thank you for the advice. It does seem very sound and good.

[Caaveman]

hmmmm I'm not really sure what you want?

If you were having MMF 3 ways with your wife, even if you somehow "acted straight" (how? I don't know?), trust me she knew you weren't heterosexual.

Anyway this is all about what you want and I can't really figure that out by your post but it's something that you yourself should try to figure out since only you know.

Well, LOL, I am not sure what I want eithor!!!
Our threesomes were her in the middle and me and the other guy only payed her attention and not each other. (+ the other man was straight, I thank.)
And to your last remark:... I wish I knew. LOL. Anyway thanks for caring enought to try to figure me out and help.

[jem_is_bi]

I am not sure if you want advise on what to do next. But, I suggest that you assess how you feel about sex and love with your wife versus the desire for sex with men. I definitely have experienced significant internal confusion about my sexuality all of my life. I never had sex with a man until 2 years ago, (I am 60 now), even though I always desired sex with men more than with women. Having sex with a man has completely eliminated my anxiety over this issue. Surprisingly, having sex with men has also made me more comfortable with the thought of a long-term relationship with a woman even though I know I will always be more excited about sex with men. I guess that having homosexual sex gave my emotional life balance it was lacking. I would be very happy with only male sex for the rest of my life. I no longer have the fear that I will come to the end of life with out knowing the wonderful pleasure of fulfillment of such a basic desire. However, very surprisingly, for the first time in many years, the possibility of an emotional and sexual relationship with a woman is also appealing. I suspect this is because I am now sexually fulfilled and more happy with my life and myself than before.
I hope that you can achieve a similar state of increased comfort with who you are and that you sexually need are fulfilled and that your love and desire for your wife gets even better with age.

JEM

[ambi53mm]

Caaveman…I don’t think your crazy and I certainly (from my standpoint anyway) don’t think your old either. Sometimes when we approach what is termed “mid-life” we tend to see things a little differently. The desire to resolve those issues we’ve side-stepped in youth becomes more personal and oft times more immediate as well. What I see is a man who has finally after spending his life dedicated to wife, home and family, taking the necessary time to discover the whys and what-fors of his own sexual nature and desires. The road not traveled that began back in your youth and was then put on the back burner for so many years, has just begun to simmer. You have nursed these fantasies for years on an internal level but often as is the case, there lies a difference between fantasy and reality. You are in your self- discovery phase experiencing those difference as you begin to unravel the mysteries of your own sexual nature.

Give yourself permission to explore with an open mind and child-like curiosity these feelings…your wife comprehends more than you think. Her allowing you this opportunity, says a lot about her faith in you. She may not want to share in the more intimate details but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t care and when the time is right there will be plenty of opportunity for conversation…but you need first.. to walk this path alone.... This is your journey…not hers.

Based on all you’ve written in regard to her, I’d venture to say that when it’s all said and done…she may choose to share and hear of all you’ve learned…. but then again LOL maybe not… but she does understand the "need: …not the want….of this necessary part of your personal growth. Give it time and continue to reassure her that she is the primary relationship in your life….for your own sake as well as hers.

Safe Journey
Ambi:)

[the mage]

You know, they say that if you talk about it, that you'll understand it better. If you write it down on a piece of paper and read it you won't get anything out of it until you mail it to someone. I guess it's all about the point of no return, When you can't take it back. I guess, only at that point does it sit on your brain, and you have to look at all sides of it instead of just your own silly one sided, side of it. I don't expect very many people to read this at all, Norw do I expect anyone to want to comment on it. But some times I feel in such a way that I don't know how I feel. Or how I should feel. I can't even explain it to me mus less anyone else. I have had a good life, I have had a good woman of 22+ years, Two children whom have grown up quiet well for the father they had. I never got much schooling, as I left home for the first time when I was 14 years old, and I dropped out of school completely when I turned 16, I didn't go much those last couple of years anyway. I was already working and thought that I already had life figured out. Seams that the older I get, the less I understand. I already had had gay sex at an even younger age. I just thought that it was a part of growing up. And I did love the attention that it brought me, so it was good. Then as I got took more often I began to realize that this was not the norm, as it always had to be hidden from sight, and I was told that if word got out that I would be hated by all, and that bad things would happen and as a child I believed what I was told. Now understand, I am not trying to shine any ill gotten light on anyone here. Anyway after I got out on my own, I only had one other gay sex partner and that was a one night stand. I started seeing girls, not many, Hell, I could count all the women that I' ever been with on my fingers and still have some folded down. Then I met my wife and we got married. After a few years I started to want sex that a woman in all of her beauty, glory, and nature could not satisfy unless she used plastic (And, no I don't mean her credit card!! LOL).But it was hard to get her to use the toys on me with out telling her that I had enjoyed another man's dick. But I did, This seemed to satisfy me for a few years, or at least release the tension that built up from time to time. We even had MMF threesomes before, and it was hard for me to keep my hands off him and act straight, but I did. Then she played alone with a man and right after that is when I broke down and told her that I was bi and that I wanted men as well as women. I don't know why. I don't understand it myself. But if I don't push through then I will never understand it and I may loose what little sanity that I have left. But she agreed for me to have MM sex, only she said that I should have it one on one the first time ( I'm not sure if she thought that it would be better for me or if she couldn't stand the sight of it), either way I have to give her an A+ for the effort of understanding me and trying to make me happy. I went out and took the first dick that I could get. What I was looking for just wasn't there, I mean, it was good, it was fun, but not like I felt it should be. I think that it's because in my mind she was left out. I love sex, I love my wife, and I love the feeling of a dick in my mouth and my ass.I guess I am having a hard time of it because as a woman I thought that she would be happy for me and understand that the dick was just as good for me as it is for her, and she would ask me about every little detail of it after it was over like she was interested in how I felt and how I liked it, like I do her after she has sex with someone else. I felt real let down, not that it's her at any fault, I just did. I felt like she didn't want to hear about it because she didn't want to know or think about me with another man. Anyway, if you have read this far down then you must have had a very boring day. Sorry this didn't come to a big dramatic ending for ya. I am just trying to understand her and even me a little bit more. And I figured this was the place to do it at since y'all are mostly of a bi nature and could understand and old mans rambling. (At least here you can stop reading at any time without being impolite.) And I don't figure that anyone here will be judgmental of me.Well maybe I've written enough that after I hit the submit button, I'll see it from another angle and feel better. Later...Bye.

Hey, if you're don't know the question, don't offer an answer.. geeze some people .......
Anyway,,,,, here's the thing. You got her to allow you to play, and she didn't leave you. You did well. Now as a sign (you think) of intimacy you want to tell her all the details. You are hurting her. Stop trying.
If she does not come to you for info she does not want to know and it very likely hurts her to think about it. She will put in in a safe "other" place in her mind allowing you do do what you need to feel whole but its a good bet she really does not want to know the play by play.
Its not a turn on for her it probably never will be.
You are going thru your 40's changes, she may not change the same way. don't try to make her go any way but her own.

[Caaveman]

I am not sure if you want advise on what to do next. But, I suggest that you assess how you feel about sex and love with your wife versus the desire for sex with men.
I hope that you can achieve a similar state of increased comfort with who you are and that you sexually need are fulfilled and that your love and desire for your wife gets even better with age.

JEM

Well, Jem, thanks for th input. As for the love of my wife, she is the Love of a lifetime. And I never would want to do anything to loose her. She's a terrific woman, I could ask for none better.And our love life seems to have soared to new heights after I became open with her. I guess I am just trying to figure out in my own head what I should do next....Leave the subject alone and just go on with our lives the way it used to be between us and forget about other ever having sex with another man, or try to figure out how to keep it all good with her and still have another man once in a while.
I really wasn't expecting any replies to this thread, just unloading my mind. But it is good to see so many people that don't even know me from Adam's house cat, that have interest and concern enough to actually want to reply and try to help the situation out. So all I can say is thanks a lot.

[Caaveman]

[QUOTE=the mage;88054]Hey, if you're don't know the question, don't offer an answer.. geeze some people .......
QUOTE]

LOL, I think that you could take some of your own advice....
And as for the(geeze some people .......) thing , If you think that I'm not worth the bother, or that I am that stupid, which seams to me to be what you are insinuating, then why did you bother?

[<<GOD>>]

[QUOTE=the mage;88054]Hey, if you're don't know the question, don't offer an answer.. geeze some people .......
QUOTE]

LOL, I think that you could take some of your own advice....
And as for the(geeze some people .......) thing , If you think that I'm not worth the bother, or that I am that stupid, which seams to me to be what you are insinuating, then why did you bother?

Pay them no mind my friend. You will encounter many who have little regard for humanity or compassion for their fellow human beings. They are of little consequence, and have usually been "short-changed" in more ways than one (if you catch my drift LOL). Hardly worth the bother to respond to and we know who they are because they offer themselves up at every opportunity to demonstrate their own ignorance. Give them enough rope and they do an excellent job of hanging themselves in the long run. You are where you need to be in the moment, and regretably, as are they.

Your friend
<<God>>

[Biwaytoheaven]

First, you are not crazy. Second, you aren't old. Third, you are in an emotional state that feels almost impossible to get out of. I've been married 23 years, two kids and came out to my wife 6 years ago. I would have to say that your wife is trying to deal with it in the best way she can. You're also trying to deal with it the best way you can. Neither way is right or wrong...it just is. Open communication is the best way to resolve it. Ask the hard questions...expect hard answers. Life is to be lived in its fullest way...if we are constantly hiding, we aren't living. Every experience adds to who we are and to those around us because of it. If you need to write a letter to your wife trying to explain things, then do it. I found that writing things down CAN be very helpful.

Anyway, Caaveman, you're going through a tough place and I think I know how you feel. Nine years ago I realized I liked men and spent three years trying to deal with it as a married man. Good luck to you!

[liquidcandycain]

i dont know if you'll get to mine or not but here's what I think...
If she is acting like she really dont want to hear about you being with another man sit her down and tell her you want to know EXACTLY what she thinks and how she feels about the situation. Tell her even though you told her your feelings for the same sex and she told you to go find a man (alone) you dont feel like she completely understands and if she doesnt agree with it you need to know why and you can start from there. thats about all the advice I can give...hope it helps!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

First of all Darlin, you Gotta be You at all times, and you cant be happy if you have to fake your life. Bravo to you for coming out and telling her, how she handles it is up to her. Dont deny who you are, and how you're feeling deep inside. (No pun intended..lol)
I did this for too many years and believe me, all it did was hurt for the simple reason that I couldnt be free enough to Be Me. Dont let this happen to you too.
I hope your Lady sees how pleasurable it is for you, and decides to next time join in on the fun. :}
Good Luck Sugar..
Cat. ^..^

[thinkfree39]

In a one-night stand with a woman I was getting the best blowjob of my life. The dirty-talk urge hit me and I wispered "You love sucking my cock, don't you?" She said "I like to make you happy". I was bummed. I wanted to enjoy that blowjob AND satisfy her at the same time and she wasn't playing along, she told the truth.

What does that have to do with your situation? You wanted her to be excited and curious and maybe even a little aroused by the thought of you having sex with a man and she just wanted you to be happy.

I thought long and hard about that womans words that night. She wanted me to be happy. What's wrong with that? You got a helluva woman. Let her make you happy even if it's just consent. That's what she wants.

[Caaveman]

Thinkfree39, Cherokee_Mountaincat,Liquidcandycain,Bywaytoheaven ,and <<GOD>>.....,I do thank each and every one's input, it has all been somewhat helpful. I didn't understand what I was even asking and yet I got a plenty of good answers that made me think...,. It is not seeing or even hearing about my wife with another person that turns me on. It's the image in my mind of seeing her be satisfied to the fullest, It's the look on her face when she's been satisfied, its the sound in her voice, and the happiness of it when she's been sexually satisfied that turns me on. It's the knowing that she got pleasure so intense that turns me on, no mater what, how or with whom. Its not the act, but rather her satisfaction that really gets me going. And I guess, that I was hoping for the same in return. But everyone sees things differently, only I didn't realize that may be she saw things so much differently until I got to play, and then I had to deal with the way that she took it. So if by not wanting to talk about it is her really not wanting to know then this means that she is having trouble with it, in some way or another and I need to slow down and let her deal with her feelings. After all, it may very well be that she can't really deal with me being bi, and is only trying to because she loves me. Y'all have really gave me , i think, some insight, and many points to think over. It's not all about me, it's not all about her. It's all about us together. Anyway, thanks a lot to all of you, for your input.

[Caaveman]

***************
.....Email from The_Mage.....
Hey Caveman,,,I was referring to Diamond dog not you..
You posting was clear to me and I gave a real answer...
***************

Well, I supose that I miss read your reply.Sorry for the missunderstanding.
But I really don't think that what you said was called for eithor, toward anyone.Then again it's not my place to tell you (or any one else ) how to view other people. I personally appreciated everyones reply, but yours (The_Mage) put me on the defence. I may or may not agree with what someone says here but they do have the right to express their feelings and thaughts on the matter. But, we should always do it respectfully, wheather we see eye to eye or not. And just to be honest with you, I did appreciate the rest of what you said. It did make me look at it from the other side. And you may very well be right. But then again everyones post to this thread made me look at the situation differently, and helped me to put things in to a little better prospective. So again To every one of y'all that responded to this thread Thank you. Y'all have a good day. Bye for now
Will